Are We Paying to Damage the Ocean?

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What if one of the most
common fishing methods costs

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more than it actually makes?

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That's what we're gonna talk about
on today's episode, because this is

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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast,
where we talk about the good, the

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bad, and the ugly in this situation
of what's happening in the ocean.

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wanna learn more about the ocean and

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hit that follow button to listen

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to more of these episodes.

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It's kind of interesting 'cause the
question for today is, are we funding

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an industry that is damaging the ocean
more than it actually benefits us?

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And I think sometimes you
look at the idea of fishing.

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A lot of times when you see
fishing, it's usually one or

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two people go out on a boat.

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They take fishing nets, or they'll take
a rod and reel, and they'll just kind of

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pull and reel, and they'll just kinda
put their fishing line in, and they take

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the fish out and they put it in a bucket.

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And they just continue to do that until
their bucket's full or the boat's full,

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and then they go in and they sell it, and
they can feed their families and so forth.

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But then when you start to think
about the industrial fishing fleet,

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that's where it gets dangerous and a
little kinda nasty and destructive.

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And when you start to see the damage
some of these tools that are used to

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fish can cause, and they're not used
in the proper way, or they're overused,

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they can really cause a lot of damage.

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And that's what we're gonna be
talking about today, 'cause we're

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gonna be talking about a recent study
that was covered on the site that I

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love the most this week, phys.org.

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It examined bottom trawling in Europe.

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And you've probably saw a lot about
bottom trawling in the movie Oceans, that

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was narrated by Sir David Attenborough,
and it was released last year.

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In advancement of the Nice Conference
of the Ocean Decade, they talked about

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this fishing method where heavy nets
are used to drag across the sea floor.

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And what it is, it's basically two
doors, a lot of the times with a

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chain that goes along the bottom, and
there's a net that goes behind that.

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And it's attached to a boat.

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And that boat releases the net,
and it goes underwater, and it

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usually drags along the bottom.

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They have some that are in
the water column, but mostly

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it's, drags along the bottom.

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And that net will go across,
and that chain and the doors

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will go across the ocean floor.

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And it'll just destroy
everything in its path.

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It'll go for a couple of kilometers,
and it'll pick up the net.

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It'll take the net and
just open it on the deck.

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And then the fishermen go through and they
say, "I wanna keep this fish. I'm not

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gonna keep this fish. I'm gonna throw it
overboard." And there's all this stuff.

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There's a lot of bycatch,
meaning there are fish that are

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not targeted that are caught.

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Other seafood like invertebrates
and stuff like that, if they're

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targeting fish that are not the
target species that are caught.

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There are certain net sizes, mesh sizes
that allow certain species to go through

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and not allow other species to go through.

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There are sea turtle exclusion
devices which allow sea turtles to

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get out of the nest so they don't
get stuck, they don't get caught.

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But you've seen a lot of videos where
you've seen great white sharks that

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are caught in the net, whale sharks
that are caught in the net, manta

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rays that are caught in the net, other
sharks that are caught that are not

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the target species that could die,
dolphins, some small whales, pilot

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whales and so forth that have been caught.

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The nets can be various lengths
and sizes that can catch a

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certain amount of species.

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Some of those, like, high seas
trawlers are massive, and their

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nets are just gigantic, and they
catch so much, so much seafood.

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And not all of it is the target species.

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Many of it is not the target species.

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And so we're gonna be talking
about that fishing method

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today, because it's important.

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Because a study found that while
the industry generates profit, the

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total societal cost is far higher.

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And in some cases, up to 90 times higher.

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We're gonna talk about what that
actually means, because a lot

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of times we're hearing trawlers,
"Well, the fish it brings in, it

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probably makes a profit out of it."

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But what else do we have to consider
when we are talking about trawling, when

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we're talking about this fishing method?

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Because most of that cost that is
90 times higher comes from carbon.

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Yes, carbon.

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We talked about carbon earlier this
week, about how there are certain

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environments that will store carbon
better than environments on land.

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And we know that these areas can
store, like, up to four to 10 times

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of the carbon that trees on land can.

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And so the sea floor that
stores large amounts of this

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carbon is really important.

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But of course, trawling disturbs that.

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It just kinda scrapes all those animals
out, and it destroys the bottom, like

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the first layer of that bottom part
of the ocean, that will release all

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of that carbon back into the system.

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And that's where we start to see where,
all, like, the mitigation and everything

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that's done and all these productive
habitats, 'cause, habitat really ends

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up protecting the ocean, protecting
the fish that are in the ocean, the

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crabs, the lobsters, the invertebrates.

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That habitat provides a home.

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It's like a home.

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So imagine a tornado comes across
and just destroys your home.

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And your home is gone.

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You gotta rebuild that home.

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But it's expensive to rebuild that
home, and not everybody's gonna

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be able to rebuild that home.

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Well, the same thing is happening in
the ocean, but even faster and more.

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And even in marine protected areas, like
the UK just until recently allowed, I

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believe it's still until recently, I
have to look up that, but they allowed

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trawling in their marine protected areas.

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Well, how can you protect fisheries
if you're gonna allow trawling

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in marine protected areas?

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That's the whole point a lotta times
of marine protected areas to do that,

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and we're not seeing that happen.

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So carbon gets released.

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Now, there's also another
layer, the public subsidies

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that support the industry.

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So, society ends up paying for it twice.

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So taxpayer dollars goes to subsidize
the industry so that these fishers and

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fishing industry can actually make money.

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Once through the funding, and again in
the environmental damage, we're looking

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at a lot of costs to society and it
outweighs the cost by 90 times, the cost

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of the profit that's made from these.

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So at what point do we allow these
subsidies to continue and the

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damage to the environment continue?

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You wanna support the local
community, but is trawling the way?

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And is trawling in certain areas only
the way, where we allow small areas

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where trawling can happen, and hopefully
restoration can happen within that area.

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Or it's not the same areas
all over and over again.

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Now, there are clear options.

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Like I said, we can restrict trawling in
certain areas, in the marine protected

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areas and other sensitive areas.

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But we should also reevaluate subsidies.

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Now, I've covered an episode or
two on subsidies, and the World

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Bank has this new subsidy document
that's out and policy that's out.

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And that's, when we can start to look at
reevaluating subsidies and taking action

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on it and aligning policies with real
costs, now we can really start to make

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a difference and really start to reduce
those extra costs on the environment.

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So when you get a fish next time,
you're getting seafood, and you know

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it's been caught by something that's
been trawled, you now know the cost.

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It's not just you're paying for the fish,
but the societal cost, the world cost of

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releasing all that carbon, destroying that
habitat, and subsidizing with your money.

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I'm not saying don't eat seafood, but
maybe eat seafood from another method.

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Cause right now the system is
misaligned, and we need to fix it.

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And until we fix it, it's always
gonna be misaligned, obviously.

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I think I just reaffirmed myself.

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But anyway, regardless, it's
something that's really important

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'cause it's not just overfishing.

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It's a system where we pay
to make the ocean worse.

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Think about that.

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We're actually hitting it 90 times worse
than what we left it just for fish.

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I'm not saying seafood altogether is bad.

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What I'm saying is trawling may not be the
way we're doing it, and the way we manage

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it right now is definitely not the way
to do it, and it's making the ocean worse.

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So I would love to hear
your comments on this.

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I would love to hear what you
have to say, because this is the

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beginning of a conversation.

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I started this podcast 11 years ago
to continue that conversation to

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happen, and just to introduce you to
all these different things that are

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happening in the ocean, and I would
love to hear your thoughts on trawling

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and what we should do about it.

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If you wanna hit me up on my socials,
just go in the show notes of your favorite

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podcast app that you're listening on this,
listening to this podcast episode on.

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And of course, if you wanna give
me feedback, you can do that at

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speakupforblue.com/feedback, all one word.

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Leave me a voicemail, or you can put
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comment or question or whatever that might
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I would love to hear from you on that.

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I wanna thank you so much for
joining me this week on these

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podcast episodes each and every day.

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It's so much fun to be able to do this.

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I'm looking forward to next week,
getting back into the regular theme.

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I'll let you know what that is on Monday.

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And, yeah, I can't wait to hear from
you, and I can't wait for you to hit that

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follow button, and share this episode with
somebody you think will benefit from it.

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So thank you so much for joining
me on today's episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.

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We'll talk to you next time.

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Have a great weekend,
and happy conservation.